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I'm planning to create a BNHA community since the existing ones appear to be inactive. I've been looking at the way other fandom-focused communities do code of conduct/community guidelines on Dreamwidth and have generally been impressed with how short they tend to be!! Like, the guidelines for this comm are two lines. And it seems to work? I'm very afraid of running myself into a corner by not being clear enough, haha.
Here's what I'm thinking of going with:
One of my main concerns is the negativity from Twitter and Tumblr and Discord spilling over to the comm but I'm not sure if I'm going overboard pre-emptively. I'm also not sure yet how to handle manga spoilers for the anime-only, when the anime is years behind 🤔
Do people usually create tag lists for their comms? Or is it possible to rename and manage tags as they get created? Wondering if the tag list should go into the guidelines otherwise...
Tips, advice, and links to more examples are all very welcome! This will be my first community.
Here's what I'm thinking of going with:
- Treat people with respect.
- Don't harsh other people's squee. Be mindful that the character you hate is someone else's favourite. Try to come here to celebrate what you love about the fanworks and canon, the characters and themes and anything BNHA-related that sparks joy. Character bashing, kink shaming, flame wars and dogpiling aren't welcome. This is a ship and let ship environment.
- NSFW content (dark themes, mature topics, adult content, etc) should be placed under a cut and tagged appropriately, so people who want to avoid those topics can do so. Mentioning dark themes from canon (e.g. child abuse, mutilation, suicide-baiting, ...) in passing is fine but should go under a cut if digging into the details.
One of my main concerns is the negativity from Twitter and Tumblr and Discord spilling over to the comm but I'm not sure if I'm going overboard pre-emptively. I'm also not sure yet how to handle manga spoilers for the anime-only, when the anime is years behind 🤔
Do people usually create tag lists for their comms? Or is it possible to rename and manage tags as they get created? Wondering if the tag list should go into the guidelines otherwise...
Tips, advice, and links to more examples are all very welcome! This will be my first community.
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Date: 2022-01-08 10:28 pm (UTC)I think most of the time the guidelines are very short because... people just assume that others won't be assholes. I'm not saying that Dreamwidth can't have drama, but in my experience it is overall a fairly laid-back place where you have to (or in more positive terms, have the freedom to) find out/manage a lot of things on your own, and that influences how people write their community profiles because they expect you to be able to handle stuff in a mature fashion. In my experience, the more in-depth and complex rule sets develop in communities that have to navigate legal issues carefully (e.g. posting comic scans), are about topics that have the potential to bring out the flame wars, or spaces by and for minority groups that need clear boundaries to make their community a safe haven.
Dreamwidth has a (in my opinion) very convenient and easy to fine-tune tagging system. A page that lists all created tags is automatically generated and usually a link to it is part of the available layouts already. Sometimes people link to that page in the profile. If their tagging system for the community is complex and/or has rules that need to be followed ("always tag explicit work as..." etc), they might write an explanatory entry or guideline. It's also possible to finetune who gets to manage tags, i.e. whether community members can create new ones, or can only add existing tags that were created by the admin/mods. Last but not least, the tags management page makes it simple to add, delete, or rename tags, and that even includes existing tags that haven't yet been used in an entry. In other words, you'll have a lot of freedom, and in most cases a tag list isn't really necessary - I'd say it depends on whether you think the community tags require additional information. For example,
I hope that wasn't too wordy - feel free to tell me to shut up, or ask for clarification if I wasn't being specific enough.
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Date: 2022-01-09 08:06 am (UTC)I think I'll need look for examples of tags people use for warnings, to try and have a decent system in place from the start.
It's really good to know that I can rename tags as an admin. BNHA has a lot of characters and so many ship combinations, I think it'll take some work to keep them consistent as they get added and avoid duplication. Maybe I will start by making the tags open to all at first, and then create them on-demand as the community grows... 🤔
Thanks again for taking the time to type all of this!
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Date: 2022-01-08 11:20 pm (UTC)FWIW, I'd suggest taking "Character bashing, kink shaming, flame wars and dogpiling aren't welcome." out of your second bulletpoint -- they're covered by your first bulletpoint and "Don't harsh other people's squee" and just raising the spectre of them can make things feel a bit more tense, imo.
And be prepared to step in as a mod, if required (but not too heavy-handed or micro-managing). Knowing that it's a moderated space influences how people behave and hopefully will make conflict-averse people feel more comfortable about posting. Dreamwidth users are generally pretty good, though, imo.
Other suggestions:
- Have a pinned "Intro" post where new members can introduce themselves and say a bit about how they got into the fandom, etc.
- Have at least one mod tracking all comments on the comm, to keep an eye on things. And try to have a culture of replying to comments. (Nothing puts people off like commenting and getting no response -- it tends to make them feel like they said something wrong.)
- Advertise on
- Decide if you want your comm to be a general comm, a noticeboard, or both. (When we started
- Try to keep the comm active. We're currently doing this with a series of scheduled meta posts. We started out with character discussions, where people could sign up to post about a specific supporting character. Now we're onto scene discussions, still with signups. It means that we're guaranteed at least one post a week, so when people find the comm, they can participate in a recent discussion, if they want to, and see that we're still around. (This is a bit of work to run, so again, great to have a co-mod.)
- If you're borrowing formats or ideas from another comm, it's generally considered polite to ask and credit. :-)
- Be gentle/patient with newbies, especially those new to Dreamwidth or new to the fandom. It's a learning curve.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Good luck!
ETA: Uh, sorry, this got a bit off-topic wrt guidelines and codes of conduct and turned into a braindump on modding generally. I hope that's okay!
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Date: 2022-01-08 11:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 02:41 am (UTC)(Oh, would it cover exchanges, too? Because resource links to things like fandomcalendar, the pinch hit comm, the guide to DNWs that someone wrote a while back (possibly for Yuletide), etc. could be really useful...)
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Date: 2022-01-09 02:48 am (UTC)But even then I imagine there would have to be judicious use of lock and a very strong "if it's under lock it stays under lock" policy for certain things.
Having it apply to modding exchanges too would make sense! There's a pretty active Discord for that I think, but not everybody will be able to access the Discord or want to, and it would be good to have more of that kind of information somewhere public and persistent. (I think a fair number of the active fandom comms on DW run regular exchanges? So it would naturally end up mixed in anyway.)
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Date: 2022-01-09 02:59 am (UTC)Yes, or at least events. :-)
Haha, I can already imagine some inter"generational" discussions about "here's how X was done back in the day" versus "do all your advertising through TWITTER and DISCORD!" ;-p
Maybe do a poll somewhere and see if there's any demand? (That is actually one of the things I do a fair bit as a mod: polls (or posts) to gauge interest. There's no point pouring energy into running a thing that no one wants to participate in...)
I love your proposed con name, btw. If there isn't enough interest for a whole comm, you could make it a tag here?
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Date: 2022-01-09 08:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 07:16 pm (UTC)I'm in this photo and I don't like it.jpg
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Date: 2022-01-10 05:23 am (UTC)We could make it a tag here but first I would have to figure out the tagging system here ;_;
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Date: 2022-01-09 04:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 08:29 am (UTC)Thank you for the links to existing communities with guidelines, super helpful to see more examples. I like the idea of keeping the guidelines as positives and "Do"s and already removed "Don't be an asshole" for that reason, it seems like the natural follow-up.
I wasn't familiar about noticeboard-type communities, although it makes sense. Thank you for sharing your experience with doing something like that.
Several people have suggested on my journal to have regular weekly themed posts (recs, social, prompts...) to encourage participation so I've got a few ideas to get the community started/keep the community active this way, especially at the beginning. I utterly love the idea of scheduled topic posts that people can sign up for, though!! That hadn't come up, and it would help spread the work as well.
...So about credit, when I start doing just that and set up a schedule asking for people to sign up (probably not right away but after a few weeks), to give credit properly the idea would be to include thanks to
Haha I was going to ask other questions about topics like this afterwards anyway, just trying to get things sorted in order. I really appreciate all the thoughts and updated my notes, thank you very much for taking the time to share your experience and insights!!
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Date: 2022-01-22 08:42 pm (UTC)I would love co-mods, unfortunately I haven't quite made BNHA friends on Dreamwidth yet!
Oh, right. Best of luck with that, then! May your comm attracts lots of like-minded people. BNHA is huge on AO3, right? So there must be a lot of people around the place. *fingers crossed*
And I would prefer to make sure any other mod is on the same wavelength about what makes for a healthy community before doing a call for help
Yeah, good call. That's very important.
...So about credit
*nodnod* You can say "Thanks to the folks at
Anyway, best of luck!
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Date: 2022-01-22 08:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-08 11:40 pm (UTC)So the guidelines in this comm are deliberately very short, sweet, and simple, because the intent of this comm is to be a place where people who aren't real comfortable with Dreamwidth comms can feel comfortable jumping in, trying things, and messing up.
I'd call them "minimum viable guidelines" - you need a guideline that says some version of "we expect a minimum level of not-being-an-asshole", so that if you do get a total asshole you can ban them without guilt or handwringing, and you need a guideline that says what kind of content you want in your community, because otherwise people won't post because they're afraid it's not the kind of post you want. (Even if it seems obvious what kind of content you want! My main action as a mod on this comm lately is reassuring people 'yes, we really do mean it when we say you can post that'.) So I would add something to your example about what kind of content you want, even if it's just "anything even a little bit related to BNHA is good" or something.
We haven't really needed them much! Like
And there are tradeoffs with short guidelines. f_f is meant to be newbie friendly, but I knew by limiting the guidelines to absolute minimum, there would be people I consider friends who couldn't join.
--Really short conduct guidelines put a lot of power and not a lot of accountability in the hands of the mods, so people who've had bad experiences with power-tripping mods will be chary of conduct rules that aren't well-delineated.
--Mods operating under those kinds of rules have to confident in their own ability to be fair and just without a lot of accountability.
--There are lots of people who have experienced "Don't be an asshole" guidelines to mean as long as they're polite about their racism and harassment, they're fine, but if you get angry about their racism and harassment, you're out. So they're going to avoid those kinds of spaces, and want something that specifically names kinds of conduct you don't tolerate, beyond plain assholery.
--Some people have to be able to avoid certain things: a stalker ex who's still on DW, some aspect of fandom that triggers them, etc. So they can't be in a comm that doesn't have tagging or membership rules that make it possible to avoid certain things or people.
--Some people need certain accessibility aids: text descriptions of images, transcripts of audio, warnings of flashing gifs, not messing with fonts and colors, etc. So it's good to put in, if not a requirement, than an encouragement to do those things.
So there will be people on DW who mod very active communities who would be strongly in favor of long, detailed guidelines! And my other active DW comm has guidelines a bit longer than these.
That said, I am generally in favor of short guidelines, especially for a new community that's trying to grow.
--Shorter rules are less intimidating to new people, harder to mess up accidentally, make it easier to speak up.
--Keeping things vague and broad makes it harder for assholes to rules-lawyer, which is good. It also gives you the ability to be flexible as needed for the good of the community.
--You need to commit to enforcing what's in your guidelines, so if, i.e., you put in strict tagging guidelines, you need to be willing to check every post very soon after it goes up to make sure it follows them. If you won't be able to put in the time/effort to enforce strict guidelines, you're better off not having them.
--If you try to write in things like accessibility aids or tagging common triggers or certain topics to avoid, you will have to make a ruling on what is the *correct* way to do those things, and often you're not an expert on those and can't know what the correct way is, so you risk making it worse.
--The sort of asshole who will need to be banned under a "don't be an asshole" conduct rule would probably find a way to claim they were fine under more detailed rules - those kind of people are good at that.
(I've done some professional training on "moderating" shared semi-public spaces as a library employee, and professional best practices also tend to lean hard on short but flexible rules.)
Your starter guidelines should be about setting the tone of the community, not coming up with a plan for everything that can go wrong, so think about the tone you want to set. During that phase it's not a bad idea to focus on the positive, either - phrase it as things people *should* do, not things they *shouldn't*, and people will come to your comm feeling more positive about it. You can always plan to change the rules as the community develops to meet its needs - you probably should!
When a comm gets large enough that you don't really want it to get any larger or more active, you just want to maintain it as it is - which honestly is pretty rare on DW but happened a lot on LJ - that's when I would change to longer guidelines and stricter modding. One point where that often comes up is if a community gets big enough to need to bring on more mods - you need detailed enough guidelines that the mods are all on the same page.
I think your proposed guidelines are pretty good for a new comm! I would probably add something about what kind of content you want, and something about accessibility (the "alt text" and "flashing gifs" stuff.) I might go a little less negative too but I tend to go overboard the opposite way on that.
(I don't know anything about tagging comms except that the tags on my comms are a mess and I should probably do something about that.)
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Date: 2022-01-09 08:47 am (UTC)Setting the tone vs creating a rule book is also such a good point. Another one for focusing on "Do"s rather than "Don't"s.
Thank you for the notes on accessibility as well. I have a lot to think about!
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Date: 2022-01-10 05:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-10 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-13 08:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-08 11:47 pm (UTC)While you think on spoilers, if I might suggest, there is also the simple html option of requesting folks use or copy-paste something similar to the below markup so that the specific spoilers would have to be highlighted.
Tag-wise, I'm fairly certain they can be adjusted at any time just like personal tags! Also to consider: having set tags vs trusting the community members to tag depending on how easy it would be to keep things cohesive. For example, is there a risk of the same character being tagged multiple things by different people? The various Persona protagonists tend to have...
a) No official name in-game.
b) A name given to them via manga adaptation.
c) An entirely different name granted via anime.
Which made navigating certain sites agonizing, because everyone used something different, lmao.
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Date: 2022-01-09 06:33 am (UTC)That highlight text isn't always great on various styles. I'd recommend spoilers behind cuts and the text of the cut indicate that it is a spoiler.
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Date: 2022-01-09 06:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-10 03:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 08:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 08:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 12:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 08:56 am (UTC)Non-expert advice below.
Date: 2022-01-09 01:12 am (UTC)On an overall note, I'd strongly suggest encouraging the behaviours you want to see through things like mod responses and participation on positive seeming threads. Also, encourage the community to be self-moderating in a positive direction (sharing the "how to help" information and so on) as much as possible - if you're getting a community building that's interested in helping new members share their squee in a friendly way (and in learning how to do this as well) you're likely to have less to worry about as a mod. Certainly, part of the duties of a moderator involve discouraging unwanted behaviour - but don't forget to encourage the stuff you want as well. Positive reinforcement works better than negative.
On a purely logistical note, as the community grows you are going to need at least one co-moderator. You aren't able to stay awake 24/7/365 and you shouldn't push yourself to do so. Try to get your co-moderator from somewhere which isn't in the same group of timezones as yourself (so, for example, if you're in the USA, see if you can get a co-mod from Europe, or from Japan / Australia / New Zealand). Note that as your group of moderators grows, you're going to need to get a bit more specific about what's allowable and what's not - if only within the moderating group itself. Plan for this ahead of time, so you have the guidelines in place (maybe pull in two extra co-mods, and have a "best of three" judgement-call system for edge cases, with a rule that "everything is an edge case" for the first few months, with things loosening up as time goes on).
As a general note: if you're trying to build a community, you're going to have to accept things will go off-topic, and after a while, the off-topic posts are going to outnumber the on-topic ones. Have spaces / threads for off-topic socialisation (they have to hold to the same rules as the rest of the community - no harshing other's squee, share what you like rather than what you dislike, etc - but they're allowed to be on just about any topic). The off-topic threads will need a greater degree of moderation at first, but pay attention to the informal guidelines the community will create as it grows and develops. It may turn out that discussions on contentious topics (politics, sex, religion, etc) may need to be either banned outright, or with a rule about "six comments then take it to email" or something similar.
On the "spoilers" thing - I'd suggest a blanket rule for tagging which says "say if you're talking about the manga or the anime" and maybe some rules which take into account things like the likelihood of finding spoilers elseweb (such as wikis etc). The one I remember from back in alt.fan.pratchett back in the day was basically "no spoilers in plain text until the book has been published in the USA" (spoilers in ROT13 were okay, so were heavy allusions, and spoiler warnings). Usually the USA was about a year behind the UK (with Australia and the rest of the Commonwealth about 6 months behind in publication times), so this covered the majority of fans (and given this pre-dated wikis, we didn't have to worry about those; by the time a fandom wiki was a possibility, much less a likelihood, things were being simultaneously published world wide, so the problem was largely moot).
Re: Non-expert advice below.
Date: 2022-01-09 09:19 am (UTC)I'm totally down for having co-mods once I meet other fans looking to build the same kind of positive community. I'd love to start with one or two but it's hard when I don't really know any other fans well on Dreamwidth, to make sure we're on the same page. Hoping a few people will step up once the community gets going!
I dig the idea of a "How to help" section to help the community be more self-moderating (in addition to leading by example). Would you have examples you've seen that were nicely phrased??
I've seen "social chat" weekly posts on other fan comms, although they were kept on topic (as in, what are you up to that's related to the topic of the community.) I don't think I'm willing or able to spend the time moderating completely off-topic threads. I may try to redirect people to PMs/their own journals if that happens, or create some kind of
The spoiler one is tough because there is so much that's happened in the manga that informs meta, characterisation, and other important information. Including a massive reveal that outtrended the US election results on Twitter, haha. Official English chapters are released every Sunday. The more I think about it, the less it seems possible to enforce spoilers on anything except for the most recent chapters, or risk stifling the conversations completely.
Thanks a lot for all the thoughts!
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Date: 2022-01-09 01:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 09:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 03:27 pm (UTC)I don't know the fandom in question at all, but if there is some kind of prominent, ongoing drama, like say a major ship war in which some fans actually get upset seeing their favorite in a different ship, it might be worth stressing that the comm is inclusive for all ships up front, so that you can then nip it in the bud if somebody comments that they think ship X is abusive and how can they post that etc. (ETA: which at second glace I see is covered by the "ship and let's ship" phrasing >.< See, this is the level of careful rule reading you can expect, half your rules are going to get missed anyway...)
Also, if your comm is more inclusive or permissive than your fandom's average norms, it might be worth to mention that explicitly. Like regarding underage sex for example.
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Date: 2022-01-10 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-10 02:48 am (UTC)Especially when you have a rule about "don't harsh the squee." In general, that's an excellent rule! ... but like any rule it can be misused and weaponized against marginalized people. I've seen so many cases, over the years, where people pointing out obvious, major bigotry on the part of either the show-runners or a community member got attacked for "harshing the squee." If nothing else, there should be a caveat that "don't harsh the squee" can't be used to silence legitimate issues of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. (I mean, spurious accusations of "you're racist/sexist/homophobic" can also be weaponized against marginalized people--everything can, if you try hard enough!--but "don't harsh the squee" is easier to weaponize.)
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Date: 2022-01-09 01:47 am (UTC)If the manga is way ahead of the anime, then I don't think it would be too much to ask for members to put spoilers or manga-only details behind a cut.
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Date: 2022-01-09 05:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 09:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 09:35 am (UTC)There is so much that's happened in the manga, to the point where it's hard to remember how far behind the anime is. I'm concerned trying to enforce adding spoilers might stifle a lot of the possible meta and conversation, unless it's limited to the most recent chapters... The publisher offers them in English every Sunday. Servers I'm on usually only request the last week's chapter to be spoilered for that reason. I'll keep thinking about it!
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Date: 2022-01-09 11:41 am (UTC)Maybe once your comm has enough people, if you're still unsure, you could take a poll? Then it would be more of what the community wants, rather than you second-guessing. Having an outline of what you'd do with it in place until then might work.
And you're welcome!
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Date: 2022-01-09 12:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-09 04:23 pm (UTC)Possibly also add something in there that says the mods reserve the right to Do Stuff to things that aren't in the spirit of the guidelines, whether that's adding cuts or spoilers or deleting something outright, even if it's not expressly worked out as forbidden behavior in the guidelines. (Then figure out whether you need a new guideline and explain why you did the thing.)
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Date: 2022-01-10 06:05 pm (UTC)I like the idea of adding a "not in the spirit" note + explaining the reasoning in a post after.
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Date: 2022-01-10 06:30 pm (UTC)You can positively discourage members
Date: 2022-01-10 11:55 pm (UTC)I help
runpunkrun moderate
gluten_free. We tried to balance "here are the limits" with "here are good things to discuss here".
I'll let you judge whether we succeeded:
Re: You can positively discourage members
Date: 2022-01-12 06:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-18 08:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-19 12:17 pm (UTC)